CAJ Innovations Forums - Strange Behavior

Kiwi Roy

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Strange Behavior
05/29/11 at 13:25:33

My bike (V11 Sport) has always been a bad idler it ticks over fine for a while then sneezes violently and stops.
I have a theory that somehow it's getting some extra pulses that make it spark well before top dead center every now and then. This happens with the original ECU as well as My ECU. Carl suggested the timing chain tensioner may be the cause but i checked it and seems to be OK

But heres what's strange. With MyECU when it stalls the Tacho remains up scale anything from 500 - 1000 RPM as though it's still getting some pulses even though the engine is stopped, If I turn the key off or power down the ECU it drops back to zero where it should be. Turning the key on it stays at zero but I can see a very slight waver of the needle.
Any thoughts?

Thanks
Roy

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Luhbo Full Member Offline I Like My15M! Posts: 186 Germany	Re: Strange Behavior Reply #1 - 05/29/11 at 19:31:35 No special thoughts from my side. At least the very slight waver of the needle is something I can watch, too. So I'd say that's normal. Could you make a video of the described ghost pulses? The moving needle as an indicator would do ; hubert
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YaBB Administrator

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #2 - 05/30/11 at 06:15:03

The tacho sometimes can appear to be stuck when the engine stops suddenly. This can be most often seen when attempting to start and the throttle/rpm feature of the tach is enabled.
This is just a result of the way the MyECU updates the tacho. Its the engine pulses that trigger the updates.

You should concentrate more on the tuning at idle and idling at 1200 when warm.

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Kiwi Roy

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #3 - 06/01/11 at 15:35:33

YaBB Administrator wrote on 05/30/11 at 06:15:03:

The tacho sometimes can appear to be stuck when the engine stops suddenly. This can be most often seen when attempting to start and the throttle/rpm feature of the tach is enabled.
This is just a result of the way the MyECU updates the tacho. Its the engine pulses that trigger the updates.

You should concentrate more on the tuning at idle and idling at 1200 when warm.

Thanks Cliff,
It seems as though you are telling me the ECU puts out a steady voltage to the tacho, i was expecting it to be pulses. I have the throttle position feature off.

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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 679 The Land of YaBB	Re: Strange Behavior Reply #4 - 06/01/11 at 15:45:34 It is always a square wave. The updates I was referring to are to the frequency of the square wave.
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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 679 The Land of YaBB	Re: Strange Behavior Reply #5 - 06/01/11 at 15:48:22 *This Topic was moved here from General Board* by YaBB Administrator.**
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Kiwi Roy

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #6 - 06/02/11 at 12:22:24

Ok so without engine pulses it doesn't update when the motor stalls so whatever it
was reeding stays put. I thought it was more like a trigger pulse, charge pump I
think it's called.

I'm sure the stalling isn't an ECU issue, it happens with the original as well.
It seems quite violent when it happens the engine stops dead like it fires much
too soon on the compression stroke.
This weekend I will hang my CRO on to see if I can get a feel for the pulses.

Roy Undecided

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raz

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #7 - 06/13/11 at 04:39:49

Early in my quest for mitigating the italian sneezes and idle hickups, I replaced the chain tensioner. The stock one is very light. I replaced it with a Stucchi one, very cheap and significantly harder.

Someone at the V11 forum came up with this genious tip: Watch the flywheel ignition marks at idle, using an ordinary ignition strobe light. Before I replaced the tensioner, the ignition advance jumped several degrees up and down. After replacing it, it was rock steady.

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1100 Sport iniezione elettronica -- the perfect merge of a superbike and a steam train

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Mad Farquhar Full Member Offline Slainthe mhath Posts: 171 Black Isle, Scotland Gender:	Re: Strange Behavior Reply #8 - 06/13/11 at 08:06:57 Is this a recommendation Raz? I haven't dug into the "chest" of my engine yet. I take it you reckon it's worthwhile? What about gears? g
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Luhbo

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #9 - 06/13/11 at 18:48:32

I take it as a recommendation, although the "jumping" should go away at higher revs (as it is with the gearbox rattle).
While you are at it go one step further and check whether TDC is TDC or not. Tolerances and chain lengthening can retard the timing up to 5 deg. So I've been told at least, something to proofe that means. It then would be not so much a spark problem, the negative influence on distribution timing probably would be greater. Could be an interesting experience.
I've changed to a Stucchi tensioner for this season, and I can say I don't like it. It's quite noisy and it feels rough. Also I'm not sure what this Stucchi part does to the oil pump's whimpy bearings.
Gears would be best I think (preferably the Aprilia ones, making the bike unbeatable Wink

). It just seems hard to find a set that comes with a usable oil pump pinion.

hubert

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« Last Edit: 06/13/11 at 18:57:49 by Luhbo »

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raz Senior Member Offline Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV, Innovate LC-1 Posts: 373 Stockholm, Sweden Gender:	Re: Strange Behavior Reply #10 - 06/14/11 at 08:54:33 My recommendation is to check it with a strobe light. If it seems to be fine, don't bother replacing the tensioner. But if it jumps wildly, it's a cheap fix (but it's not a one beer job)
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Kiwi Roy

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #11 - 06/21/11 at 22:23:54

Raz,
Thats a good suggestion, I will borrow a timing light and do that.
I pulled the timing cover off to check the tensioner, it looked fine
although the spring did seem weaker than I expected.

With the bike idling at indicated 1000 revs it seems that about 1 in 50
it fires too soon almost or stalling the motor.

If I use the speed increase lever to make the bike idle at an indicated 1100 it doesn't
stall at all however I find the lack of engine braking to be annoying.

I wonder if I could run the motor with the timing cover removed, that way i could watch
the chain with the ignition strobe.

Sorry about my tardy feedback, riding is too much fun at the moment LOL

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raz

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #12 - 06/22/11 at 07:19:07

Kiwi Roy wrote on 06/21/11 at 22:23:54:

I wonder if I could run the motor with the timing cover removed, that way i could watch
the chain with the ignition strobe.

I wouldn't try that. It will be very very messy.

Mr Roper has allegedly run a Guzzi engine without the sump though (still feeding oil to the pickup) and stuck his head down there just to be able to watch what happened inside the engine when running. I laughed for days when he wrote about it but it was probably a very educating experience Cheesy

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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 679 The Land of YaBB	Re: Strange Behavior Reply #13 - 06/22/11 at 07:37:38 You can keep your engine braking by changing nothing except for the idle cells. Try increasing the spark advance at ( 0,1 ) and maybe ( 0,2 ). This should be enough to increase the idle speed.
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Kiwi Roy

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Re: Strange Behavior
Reply #14 - 08/10/11 at 21:03:27

Kiwi Roy wrote on 06/21/11 at 22:23:54:

With the bike idling at indicated 1000 revs it seems that about 1 in 50
it fires too soon almost or stalling the motor.

Thanks Cliff. The bike hasn't even seen a laptop in well over a year, it runs so well with the RazMap apart from the sneeze.

I borrowed a timing light and found in fact that it looses the RH spark at every now and then at idle (no flash of light) and stalls.
Other than that the teeth on the ring gear stay rock steady so it can't be the chain causing it. Adding a ground to the coils seemed to cure it for a while but I must have disturbed a bad connection because it started occurring again a couple of days later.
Other than that bike pulls like a train although every couple of hours it may skip a beat as I accelerate.

As I said several times, it occurs with the stock ECU also.

I will re-visit the wiring and swap the coils over see what that does.

I will try changing the cells for braking as you suggest.

Cheers
Roy

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« Last Edit: 08/10/11 at 21:14:23 by Kiwi Roy »

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