CAJ Innovations Forums - Fuel Economy

Kiwi Roy Junior Member Offline I love MyECU! Posts: 66	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #15 - 09/05/12 at 04:23:15 I finally got around to installing a wide band O2 sensor. Initial results seem to show the bike running between 11 & 12 % Am I right in assuming this is too rich, and what should I aim for? To do a global change what percent change would this be? Thanks Roy
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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 679 The Land of YaBB	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #16 - 09/05/12 at 07:12:33 There are no direct conversions but 5% across the board would be a good start. ( I tend to leave idle and start values alone ) Better still switch the ECU to closed loop mode and set the voltage targets.
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Kiwi Roy Junior Member Offline I love MyECU! Posts: 66	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #17 - 09/05/12 at 09:57:37 Thanks Cliff I don't have closed loop capability, no optimiser Somewhere in the back of my mind I should be shooting for a 14% ratio, is that correct? Roy
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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 679 The Land of YaBB	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #18 - 09/05/12 at 10:02:04 Percent it not the right terminology but 13.5 AFR is good I'm not sure what you mean when you say you don't have closed loop capability.
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Kiwi Roy

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #19 - 09/05/12 at 10:05:28

I guess I'd better brush up on the instructions, it's so long since I put the ECU together and I need re-training after a coffee break.

So is the correct term 13.5 parts air to one part fuel by weight then?

They call it an Oxygen sensor but I suppose they factor in that the Oxygen is 21% of the air.

I should know all this stuff since I design control systems for chemical plants.

BTW, the O2 meter I have is this one
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

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« Last Edit: 09/05/12 at 15:02:25 by Kiwi Roy »

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Kiwi Roy Junior Member Offline I love MyECU! Posts: 66	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #20 - 09/19/12 at 13:26:21 Cliff, I reduced the map by 5% over the board, it seems to be very close now. A question about the software It shows the O2 sensor Volts, I don't have my O2 sensor wired in. Is it possible to wire it in or is their no point?
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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 679 The Land of YaBB	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #21 - 09/20/12 at 08:25:50 The ECU will just ignore the input if you are open loop so no need to do anything
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LOS

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90 Cali IIIFFI 949cc,MyP8
MkV,BT,LC-1,Android Opt

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #22 - 09/22/12 at 20:46:00

Kiwi Roy wrote on 09/19/12 at 13:26:21:

Cliff,
I reduced the map by 5% over the board, it seems to be very close now.

A question about the software
It shows the O2 sensor Volts, I don't have my O2 sensor wired in.
Is it possible to wire it in or is their no point?

According to MTX-L Manual: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/MTX-L_Manual_1.1.pdf

4. Optionally, the YELLOW (Analog out 1) and/or BROWN (Analog out 2) can be
connected to the analog inputs of other devices such as data loggers or ECUs. If
either one or both of these wires are not being used isolate and tape the wire(s) out
of the way. The default analog outputs are as follows: Analog output one (yellow) is
0V = 7.35 AFR and 5V = 22.39 AFR. Analog output two (brown) is 1.1V = 14 AFR
and .1V = 15 AFR. This is a simulated narrowband signal.

Yellow output 1 (wideband) is equal to LC-1 output in MAP examples.

Depending on your ECU there is a different way to wire it and administrator may help. I have a MyP8.

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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 679 The Land of YaBB	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #23 - 09/24/12 at 06:47:45 The ECU has a 3 pin header for attaching the O2 inputs ( centre ground ). You should connect the yellow wire to one of the outer terminals.
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Bobd

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #24 - 09/25/12 at 05:55:26

Count me in as one of the confused, I am slowly realising there is no 'perfect' AFR or voltage target so expecting the MyEcu to know what to do to make the bike right is the wrong approach. The MyECU does what you tell it to, and only that. So, my next task is to determine what that is.
LOS, your comments are very helpful to me, please keep up the story.

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LOS

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90 Cali IIIFFI 949cc,MyP8
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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #25 - 09/26/12 at 09:50:41

LOS wrote on 09/25/12 at 00:39:13:

Kiwi Roy wrote on 09/05/12 at 10:05:28:

I guess I'd better brush up on the instructions, it's so long since I put the ECU together and I need re-training after a coffee break.

So is the correct term 13.5 parts air to one part fuel by weight then?

They call it an Oxygen sensor but I suppose they factor in that the Oxygen is 21% of the air.

I should know all this stuff since I design control systems for chemical plants.

BTW, the O2 meter I have is this one
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

Before July I knew nothing about ECUs. I have a -90 Cali III which had been standing in garage for years. I ordered a MyP8 kit and a LC-1 kit. After many twists I got it running (no live WM8) and managed to drive it. I became hungrier and installed a Bluesmirf BT-modem and got it first connected with EcuController. Later I got an ex demo HTC Wildfire S and installed Optimiser3 on it and got it working.
I have been waiting for the next version and meanwhile studied closed loop and targets. I created a spreadsheet to train myself, which uses info from Innovate and Wiki homepages - not my opinions. You can see how measured AFR and lambda values are calculated from Voltage. It also shows how Cliff's and raz's target numbers fit in a bigger picture. Raz looking for max power and Cliff smooth drive and economy and Mad in between. When reading Forum pages I noticed that there are others who are confused too. This could be a start for oxygen facts for dummies(newbies).

In the previous spreadsheet there was a bug concerning narrow band Cali targets.
Now narrow band targets are comparable using AFR and lambda values. A new zip is included.

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« Last Edit: 09/26/12 at 16:19:35 by LOS »

O2-targets-fuel-efficiency1.zip (9 KB | 470 )

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Mad Farquhar

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #26 - 09/26/12 at 16:51:19

I always sit on the fence. Grin

. I am a Libran after all.

My choice of O₂ cell value is more to do with ensuring an element of richness rather than leaning out thus erring on the side of "safety". This was almost a subconscious cautious approach I adopted.

That map is also quite old in the iteration - I may upload a newer one I am working on - you might find that more Razzy.

Top end is not too critical to me - my favourite roads make for 3 or 4th gear work between 3.5k and 7k rpm the most fun.

Horses for courses.
Gavin

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