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Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport (Read 1179 times)
98Sporti
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Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
10/08/23 at 18:59:36
 
Hi!

I've built and installed the latest generation MyEcu in my 1998 1100 Sport, and have been using RAZ' map adjusted for my TPS settings.
The bike runs miles better than with the OEM ECU with Creedon chip, but doesn't like starting when cold.
It sometimes catches, but then quickly dies again.
I've tried adjusting the prime and boost settings, but it doesn't really seem to help. Also increased the duration of the 2 lowest points in the first column.
By how much can I adjust them?

Cheers

Es
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RAZ_TPS_27_TP.ecu (11 KB | 28 )
 
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #1 - 10/09/23 at 11:00:22
 
The first thing you need to eliminate as an issue is the battery. Only today I had a new owner tell me this was an issue for him. Low battery can cause the ECU to have a brownout reset which can make things difficult.
If you have a booster use that and keep you battery well charged until cold starts are sorted.

Are you using any throttle? I start my bikes with no throttle until it starts to fire and then ease it open. If you are doing like wise I suggest increasing the first column more You currently have
InjDur 01  4016  3552  3392  3424  2992  2752  2528  1520  1696  1536  1408  1376  1328  1296  1264  1248
InjDur 00  3616  3600  2528  2192  2016  1888  1680  1584  1360  1168  1008   832   784   784   784   784
I reckon making first column about 50% more than second. My reasoning is that the air input is bleed restricted and the slower 500RPM has more time to get air so therefor needs more fuel than the idle at 1100.
Regards
Cliff
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #2 - 10/09/23 at 14:29:37
 
I noticed also that TPS=27. Has this been set for your bike or is it from Raz?
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Motociclo
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #3 - 10/09/23 at 15:42:10
 
Just my 2 cents.
The inj adv table seemed odd to me.
Have seen this on other maps. I feel have fuel just pooling of sorts on intake valve for so long won't mix well. The argument is the fuel atomises better on the hot intake valve. It may do, it may not. I just know my bike runs far better with a later inj adv.

Different bikes, found on my ST4, starting with spark adv set to map at start up, adjusting inj adv map to squirt much later, leaving the prime and boist as Cliff sets them made starting cold pretty easy. Also, no throttle until it starts.

I modded the map to what i think may help you. This is only from my experience. Use map at own discretion.


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« Last Edit: 10/09/23 at 16:12:10 by Motociclo »  

RAZ_TPS_76_TP.ecu (11 KB | 27 )
 
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #4 - 10/09/23 at 16:50:37
 
Thanks guys!

I'll have a a go with your suggestions!

The TPS 27 value is from my bike - it was previously running a Will Creedon chip with the TPS set up the way he suggested, i.e. with the bike running but the linkage disconnected (the TPS voltage is somewhat lower when the engine isn't running).

Cheers

Esben
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #5 - 10/09/23 at 17:02:59
 
The TPS value should be set as at idle.
Link rod etc connected.
Would imagine the 27 was  inline with reseting base volt value for TPS .
Yours will be closer to the 76 mark at idle.

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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #6 - 10/09/23 at 17:55:46
 
TPS below refers to the value set in the map.
When the TPS is correct you should see 0.0 on the Optimiser's throttle display at idle and as soon as you open throttle you should see 0.1 and more.
If TPS is set too high you will open the throttle a fair amount before it shifts off 0.0. This will result in jerky off idle behaviour.
If the TPS is set too low you wont see 0.0 at all and part of your map is wasted. The bike may still run ok though. When you set the correct TPS you will need to adjust the map, probably with an enrichment across the board.
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #7 - 10/10/23 at 22:22:27
 
Hi again,

The 27 TPS value I've been using, I read off the display in the app with the bike switched on, but not runnig.
I'll check it again this afternoon with the bike running!

Cheers

Esben
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #8 - 10/11/23 at 17:12:52
 
Hi!

@Motociclo: I flashed your map with the changes, and the bike now starts fine, albeit only with the "choke-lever" pulled. As soon as the the "choke-lever" is released the bike dies.
I changed the TPS value back to the 27 indicated in the MyEcu app, and the bike now alsoo idles. Oh, and it runs very nicely too - many thanks!

I obviously have a very low throttle opening at idle, hence the TPS 27 value, and I do have the air bypass screws open.
Would it be adviseable to either turn the TPS sensor to increase the value to something like 75, or increase the actual throttle opening by turning the idle speed screw?

Just to be clear, the TPS has been set by the book, with a value of (I think 387mV) closed.

Cheers

Esben
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #9 - 10/11/23 at 17:40:54
 
Good progress.
If it starts with throttle lever, i'd be inclined to think idle stop needs a bit more.
My understanding is give it the throttle opening it needs to idle. I found with oem and MyECU, the factory millivolts reading was too low. Got the base set to 150mv by adjusting tps initially.
Idle is around 412mv. Thats adjusting idle screw, not the tps. Don't touch tps, only idle stop screw.
My thoughts is to set map to 76, adjust idle stop until app reads 76. The 27 you quote just seems way to low. With air bleeds open, that may make sense.
I closed off the bypass screws completely. They are used to CO%. This can be done with app.
If Guzzi anything like Ducati, 12.5:1 Air/fuel ratio is around 5% CO. Will give a good idle.
I balance the throttle bodies with link rod.
If it starts and idles, your most way there.




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« Last Edit: 10/11/23 at 19:29:48 by Motociclo »  
 
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #10 - 10/12/23 at 07:31:00
 
No reason to do a mechanical TPS adjustment as the MYECU can be configured to suit.
Set about 1200RPM idle when hot.
The choke lever is there for a reason. A cold bike is always going to require more throttle to overcome the higher viscous oil. You don't want the Sport idling below 1000RPM when cold even if it can.
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #11 - 10/12/23 at 19:55:10
 
Only mentioned the Mv's in reference to what had been done. My own experience with oem Mv figures was base setting was ok, but recommended idle volts always off

The app makes it so so simple to idle etc. Much better way. I think there is benefit to set the base Mv figure though.
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #12 - 10/17/23 at 07:25:00
 
Hi Guys,

I've had a "re-tinker", and set the TPS as per the book @ 150mV closed. The TPS value is now at 46 with the bike idling at 1200rpm hot.

I've tried combining Motocicle and RAZ' maps, as I had a feeling the bike responded better with RAZ map. The weather however turned shite, so I haven't been ableto try it yet...

Cheers

Esben
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #13 - 10/17/23 at 15:15:15
 
Good your making progress.

I only changed Inj adv and prime lines. All else was as per. If your getting better result with original map, run with it.
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Re: Cold starting Guzzi 1100 Sport
Reply #14 - 01/01/24 at 23:01:39
 
Happy New Year!

Seeing that it's been quite cold, I've been using the opportunity to try and sort the starting issues.
The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that I have a "Stage 1" issue. The bike cranks and once in a while gives the impression that it's going to start, but then doesn't.
What are my options during Stage 1?

Cheers

Esben
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